Interview with Master Dancer U Win Maung

Rachel Cooper: How did you first learn to dance? I understand your family is involved in dance.

U Win Maung: Yes, My father had his own theatrical company, called Shwe Man Thabin. In fact, when I was born, my father’s theatrical company was already very well-known and that year he received the highest artistic title given by the government. When I was about seven years old and on my summer vacation, my mother sent me on tour with the troupe. I had a special teacher.

R: Not your father?

WM: No. My father never taught us. But he recommended one of his dancers in the company to teach us. He was a very good teacher and I studied under him for seven years until my father passed away.

R: How old were you when he passed away?

WM: He passed away when he was fifty and I was fourteen. At that time I was in eighth standard in high school. My father told me that if I wanted to learn his technique, I had to watch him dance. I always watched him dance and act. I had several teachers during my childhood. I had three or four who taught me dance. I had to dance in front of my father and all the members of his troupe.

R: They were all watching you dance?

WM: Yes. Oh my God, it was a terrible time. I had to dance in front of 150 members of the troupe.

R: How old were you?

WM: I was about twelve. As I continued my studies, every year after I finished each course and before I went back home, I had to dance in front of them.

R: So then when did you start working with the company?

WM: After I graduated from Rangoon University, I did not do any dancing or performing for a year because I wanted to join the government service. My oldest brother told me, “why would you want to go and work in an office? You have learned dancing and you know how to sing. The company is ready for you. You can just move one step up and then you will be with me.” And so I decided to stay in the business.

R: To stay in the family business?

WM: Yes, in the family business. I graduated in 1976 and 1977, and I joined the company in ’78 and stayed until 1988.

R: You were with the company for 10 years?

WM: Yes, but before I joined the company I had to dance regularly in voluntary jobs. So every summer, from when I was in the ninth standard until I graduated, I had to practice on the stage.

R: I see. So you started doing the introductions when you were in ninth grade, and then you actually joined the company after university.

WM: Yes.

R: And what kind of parts were you playing in the company?

WM: Actually I first joined a small group that introduced dances. Not too much responsibility was involved, just small 4 or 5-minute dances. So I started doing that and then after gaining some experience, I started dancing with my elder brothers in a bigger program, which we call napadoa.

R: Napadoa?

WM: Napadoa is what we are going to perform for the Asia Society. Napadoa consists of a lot of female dancers, comedians and lady male dancers. So, at that time I had to sing, talk and make direct contact with the audience. This type of performance requires a lot of responsibility. I had to learn so many things. It was really fun. You know, I didn’t want to go into the theatre business. I didn’t want to tour from place to place, but when I finally stepped into the theatre business, I liked it very much. As time went by, I had to sing. I sang modern and traditional Burmese songs. Eventually I reached the highest level. I learned how to perform traditional drama, acting, talking and singing.

R: Almost like a cabaret show.

WM: Yes, but very impressive, like classical opera here in the West. So we had to speak, sing, dance and act.

R: What was the greatest challenge in learning Burmese dance?

WM: We had to learn the basic steps, different levels of movement, different styles of music, rhythms, and melodies and also take singing classes.

R: So you learned all of these at the same time?

WM: In the Napadoa performance, you have to have contact with the audience and you have to understand the comedians. In the end, you have to accompany the female dancer, you have to sing and at the same time you have to dance. This is a very important and very popular part of the performance.

R: So much of that feels spontaneous. You are making a joke and then you do something. How much do you know before you go on stage? How much have you already planned?

WM: Traditionally we have a routine and we have sub-programs and we, the dancers know the general routine. So let’s say the first step is the opening of the dance. Then, the comedian comes out to introduce the whole group. Then they make little jokes. And afterwards, the male dancer sings his solo song with the drums and dances. Next, the comedian comes out. He does a little extra dance again. Then the female dancers come out. It goes back and forth like that. That is the routine. After the female dancers finish their part, after they do their dance, then we close. Each of the sections has comedians, but what makes the routine very lively is the improvisational dance. The musician will play whatever he feels like and we dance without rehearsal.

R: Do you follow the musician or does the musician follow you?

WM: We cooperate with each other. We perform at the same time. While the musician is playing, I don’t stop dancing. I follow whatever the musician plays. We can sense when we are supposed to stop dancing. There is a line at the end of the music which every dancer knows signals that the music is coming to an end.

R: And how long do those celebrations last? How long is a performance? What time does it start? What time does it end?

WM: If you want to see the whole performance from the beginning to the end, we start at 9:00pm and continue until the next day in the morning. Around 6:00 in the morning. A performance is about 9 hours long.

R: Wow, that is a long time. So are you performing for the entire time?

WM: No, we have a lot of dancers and musicians, and different people take different parts. You know, we are four brothers, so we share the parts. My favorite part is Napadoa. Between my brothers there is a kind of competition. Since we are very close, it is like we are playing.

R: When Americans are looking at Burmese dance what kind of basic ideas do they need to know to understand the dance? Is the dance connected to the puppets at all?

WM: Yes, totally connected. As far I know, in Burmese dance we say that we human dancers learn from the puppets.

R: That is why these movements feel so much like marionettes.

WM: That is why you see all those angular movements, and the sudden moves. We learn from the puppets.

R: So when you are studying dance, do they use that language when they teach you dance? Do they talk about puppets at all? Does the teacher say, you are going to move like puppets?

WM: No. If you really want to dance like puppets, you have to move like puppets, but we are humans, so we leave some part of that angle. Mostly when you see Burmese dance, you have wrist movement. Such things you will see.

R: So you adjust it to the human condition.

WM: Yes, we adjust it. And before that we humans danced on the ground. We did not have a stage. There was only singing and acting but little movement and not too much dance. But when the puppet business started, the puppets’ movements were much better than the humans’. Consequently, the humans wanted to dance like puppets and so they learned how to dance like puppets. This is why there are more dances.

R: So do you mean that the puppets became very popular, and then the dancers wanted to become popular, and so they started dancing like puppets?WM: Yes, we have that feeling too.

R: And what is the situation of dancers in Burma today?

WM: The dancers are still trying to maintain the traditional culture but they are struggling economically and financially. You can see this on the news.

R: So is it hard to be a dancer in Burma today? Is it hard to make a living?

WM: Oh, yes.

R: And is your family still able to make a living from dancing?

WM: Yes.

R: How big is your brother’s company?

WM: Now we have reduced the size, so we have about 80 or 85 dancers, musicians and actors.

R: And they are traveling all over the country?

WM: Yes.

R: And how many months a year do they travel?

WM: If it is very hot we have a vacation. When I was performing in Burma, I had 10-day or 15 day breaks. I never got more than 15 days off. Most of the time I was unbelievably busy. I was traveling almost 300 miles a year and it was very hot and so it was very tiring.

R: Do many kids learn how to dance?

WM: Yes, Burmese people love dancing.

R: Both boys and girls?

WM: Actually, I would say girls like dancing more.

R: Is it more common for girls to learn the dances? That is probably similar to the US. But of course, the famous dancers seem to be men. Is that true in Burma?

WM: The famous theatrical companies are led by male dancers.

R: Do they ever perform on television?

WM: Yes. I have been on Television 2 or 3 times in Burma. And my youngest brother appeared on television many times. If I do not feel like performing on television then I always send him.

R: In your family is there a new generation that will take over the family business?

WM: Yes, my nephews.

R: They are your brother’s children? Your older brother’s children?

WM: Right.

R: But it is your younger brother who is kind of the leader of the group now?

WM: Yes.

R: What do you think is the future of Burmese dance? You said that there are still a lot of people who enjoy the dance, and that the traditional dance is still alive and well in Burma.

WM: Dance is doing very well now. It is doing very well because some of the techniques we never used before we are using now. The younger generations learn those pieces very carefully. What I am concerned about is the fate of the traditional drummer. People like dances more than talking or acting. There is a beautiful phrase that we often use, ‘go with the music.’ The main dancer is supposed to lead the speaking, reading and acting. This is really wonderful. To learn that kind of presentation is one of the major concerns.

R: So you really need to learn more than just singing and dancing and acting. It is pretty multifaceted.

WM: And that is a very important component. There are a lot of jokes in the performance. It is not easy to make them happen. You have to have the talent and the creativity. That is the highest order. To know how to dance is only a basic step. If you have a young body, you can dance.

R: Does the government support traditional culture?

WM: Yes, to some extent, but we can work independently of the government. When I was younger, I staged a modern theatrical piece with modern music.

R: They criticized you for it, right?

WM: Yes, but not in a bad way. They were very gentleman-like. So I changed it. I had learned traditional Burmese singing since I was young. So at the beginning of the shows we would open the people’s eyes a little. Instead of singing alone I would sing and have a dancer accompany me.

R: I see. Were you surprised when I brought the videotape of your brother’s group or the other groups? Or did they look just the same? Has there been any change in 10 years?

WM: Yes, it is a little worse now. Not the job, but the facilities. The theatre has no roof.

R: Now they are all tents.

WM: It is not supposed to be like that. We are supposed to have a decent place so that we can entertain the people who come to see us. In the old days, the theatre had a roof. Now there is no roof. But the amount of energy put into the shows is still the same. It hasn’t changed.

R: Yes, very high energy. I now that people seem to be strong and stay all night until 6, 7 in the morning, and have mohinga for breakfast.

WM: That is a wonderful thing to eat in the morning.

R: What has it been like to teach dance in America, in New York?

WM: I have a few students. They take their lessons very seriously and they have a lot of questions. I like to teach those types of people. I teach them my technique and the basics. I do not want them to move like robots. They have to have confidence when they dance. They must feel as if they are dancing.

R: So you want it to come from inside?

WM: Yes.

R: Is there anything else you would like people to know? Anything else you can think of for this interview? Is there anything that you would like to add about Burmese dance?

WM: Maybe something more about maintaining the culture, dance and theatrical business. Dance will always exist but theatrical drama may disappear for the young generations.

R: So you are worried about its disappearance?

WM: Yes, I worry about that. In the old days, we used to see each other every day but now private groups are becoming a little loose.

R: They are losing some of their standards?

WM: Yes, they are losing their standards and there is also too much influence from Western music. I do not want this.

R: Yes, I did see something that looked very disco-like.

WM: Yes. We already have our own form but there are many things that we haven’t used yet.

R: So if little kids who do not have their fathers in dance want to learn dance, can they learn somewhere?

WM: Yes, there are a lot of schools. There are private schools and government schools. Little kids can join private groups too.

R: OK, great. That is it for now.